“More important for whom? For the society as a whole that consists about half of men. And if you look at this from a professional or marriage standpoint, more important for men. So it’s men’s attitudes that make women focus on looks not education”

But, how did you forget that the very same society consists half of women, too? Blaming attitudes or fancies of one half for the misguided aspirations of the other half is a bit beyond rationality and ethics. The simple fact is: Stimuli keep coming your way throughout life. How you react to each of them is your responsibility, not that of the external sources of the stimuli.

You have firstly assumed that all Ukrainian men are shallow and will thus prefer looks over intelligence. Now, there are shallow Ukrainian women who prefer wealth over character of the man they fancy marrying, that doesn’t make all of them gold diggers, now does it? By the way, stereotyping the entire opposite gender based on (usually negative) attributes observed in certain specimens of that gender is sexist, whether done by a man or by a woman.

Further, the survey results only showed the aspirations of the women, not the expectations of the men! It was 55% of the women who PERCEIVED that men liked looks rather than intelligence, being the shallow bastards they are spposed to be in Ukraine. Nowhere in the survey were men and their expectations from the women mentioned!! It only showed what women perceived men liked about them, not what the men liked per se. Let be honest, women know abt. men as much as men know abt. women.

Also, since you’ve talked about superficial and shallow expectations of the men, then let us talk about those of the 55% women too; why do you think they voted for looks rather than brains? Because they, unlike the remaining 45% who want to make a niche for themselves on their own, want to net a wealthy husband who can bankroll their entire life and lifestyle. If they can’t find one in Ukraine, they will gladly become mail-order brides the region is famous for and migrate to affluent countries to have their “marriage of convenience”. Had this not been the case, then all or most of the women would’ve opted for education/brains! Oh, by the way, brains/intelligence/competency is also not the forte of every woman (which is true in the case of men,too).That is why the talentless and unintelligent women will have to devise some other way of getting through in life and good looks (natural or obtained) are the best bet in this scenario.

“—where on earth is that true? Because even in the western world the gender bias still exists.”

Well, maybe in your delusional feminist world (where all women are perpetual victims and all men are perpetrators) that is not possible! But, in the real world, it is very much possible. Women who are capable of earning respect from all round them due to their capabilities are never denied it. But, the ones incapable of earning it are definitely denied!!

Western societies also have these superficial women who want men to bankroll their lives and will thus want to marry (and later divorce) rich. Of course, they aren’t the true representatives of the typical female attitude (even though the attitude of some Shallow Hal’s is perfectly representative of the typical male attitude, apparently!). The reason men don’t take those women seriously is that those women don’t want to take their own selves seriously. And, hence the residual gender biases.

First of all, you might want to explain how my tone offends you! Neither have I threatened you nor have I indulged in swear words! The rod of truth does indeed hurt like hell! Threatening to shunt me out won’t exactly help.

“Second, surveys of Ukrainian society AS A WHOLE show that men hold those attitude that are reflected in the survey, even more widely than women do”

Can you elaborate about those surveys about Ukrainian society or men AS A WHOLE, which substantiate your point (sources, references, institutions and personnel conducting those surveys etc.)? Further, what was the sampling design applied for each of these surveys; was it Simple Random Sampling, Systematic Sampling, Stratified Sampling etc.? What exactly were the target populations (in terms of age etc.) chosen for sampling in such sample surveys? I have noticed that while most surveys usually state explicitly the entire procedure relied on, these surveys that emanate from feminist and other organizations dedicated to gender-based surveys usually don’t!

It certainly can’t be this one, as like I had said, this survey’s results only showed the aspirations of the women, not the
expectations of the men! It was 55% of the women who PERCEIVED that men liked looks rather than intelligence, being the shallow bastards they are supposed to be in Ukraine. Nowhere in the survey were men and their expectations from the women mentioned!! It only showed what women perceived men liked about them, not what the men liked per se.

Finally, I’d like to mention that I, being from a Statistics background, am well aware of certain phenomena in Statistics, which can lead to spurious inferences:

1) Bad Sampling, or Selective Sampling: Wherein the surveyor usually picks up those sample observations that seem to be very much (if not perfectly) in line with the pre-set dogmas and notions of the surveyor, while eliminating the rest.

2) Spurious or Non-Sense Correlation: Wherein 2 or more attributes, which logically have no scope whatsoever for being correlated, somehow show correlation. This is often done by resorting to Bad Sampling mentioned above.

Is there any chance or proof of these surveys being immune to these above mentioned spurious tactics?

The same query I’d like to put forward for your allegation of sexist tendencies present (if not rampant) in the Western world, whether the surveys relevant in this case have been qualitative or quantitative in their approach.

“………So it is clearly not a view that women hold DESPITE men’s attitudes, no?”

Stimuli will keep coming your way, how you react to each of them is totally up to you, like I have been insisting. If you feel that the survey is right in concluding that women’s attitudes in Ukraine are BECAUSE OF men’s attitudes, then basically what your survey is trying to tell the world is that the Ukrainian women are owners of such impressionable minds that can be so easily molded, nay manipulated, by the attitudes of the men! It’s almost as if these women are nothing more than 4 or 5 year olds, as far as mental maturity and autonomy of conviction is concerned!So much for women’s emancipation. Women of Ukraine are themselves so mentally subservient to the superficial whims and fantasies of their men, yet they don’t like to be reminded of this fact by MCPs (male chauvinistic politicians) like Tabachnik. Hypocrisy or what!

I think it is your favorite surveyors who are calumniating the Ukrainian women, not the men of Ukraine! The men of Ukraine will only take advantage of this aspect, that’s all!

But no, that cannot be the case, as I realize that women, like rest of the human race, may get insecure, but never that insecure that ALL or MAJORITY of them end up with misguided aspirations based COMPLETELY or MOSTLY on what the opposite gender says. The human mind and spirit is much more robust than that. Were you, as a woman, ever as impressionable as these women?

This is enough to suspect foul play using typical statistical manipulation to do what feminists have been doing the world over: give women a perpetual victim status, so that they can find it just too easy to blame men for all their deficiencies, in-competencies, their stupidities and all the ills that besiege them and the society as a whole! Women want freedom, but no accountability for their actions; they want equal rights, but not equal responsibilities as the men!

” I don’t see a reason to accuse the said study of malfeasance without any shred of proof or even suspicious evidence.”

But, of course! Given your feminist leanings, I’m sure you can never ever find fault with surveys that paint women as victims and men as the perpetrators! Further, knowing how well funded the feminist organizations are by the supra-national organizations like the UN, IMF, World Bank etc., it won’t be a surprise to me that such surveys come out from there. You still haven’t replied to my queries about the authenticity of the surveys!

“………..please show some specific facts that cast doubt on their validity, beyond the results not fitting you ideologized agenda. Otherwise we have nothing to discuss”

Strange! This is exactly what I have been wanting to tell YOU all this while! As for the facts, you know how very well facts and figures can be twisted and turned as per people’s preset nations and dogmas. Even I can come up with surveys that allude to something really nonsensical; only thing is I have no backing of a strong and lofty supra-national entity like the UN.There are lies, damned lies and Statistics, as Mark Twain quipped once.(Funny I’m saying this, as I am a statistician myself!).

Oh please! You haven’t read my reply to your query abt. contacting the authors of the survey, have you? And, how did I become a sexist for merely questioning the authenticity of the surveys? Have I ever cast aspersions abt. women and their capabilities? Am I advocating anti-female attitudes? Typical feminist tactic, I guess! Label a questioner a misogynist just like that!

You can be sceptical all you want, but before you accuse the survey of falsifying facts (and indirectly me, for using a bad survey to make my point), why don’t you look it up and find actual flaws with it?

I meant show specific flaws in the survey, with facts, numbers, references.

I’m sure these issues have been addressed. Why don’t you contact the survey authors and find out from them?